Comments on: Get Out Of The Box http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/ Vlog Anarchy Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:22:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: yilb http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-4119 yilb Tue, 23 May 2006 23:20:22 +0000 http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/#comment-4119 In 1978 Jerry Mander published Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television. I've just started re-reading it (i read it back in '79) & he asserts that television is irreformable & dangerous. While i doubt nothing has changed about television, web video may be different in that it may be more democratic, i.e. uncontrollable, still there are a lot of similarities, & as you see those similarities already emerging, there may be little difference in the long run. I gave up on t.v. years ago. I like to think the web, while having many similar drawbacks to television, can possibly emerge as a positive power in society. Clearly the internet/computer age is having a sweeping effect on society, the way we shop, interact & spend our time have already changed to a large degree. With the emergence of video on the web, i do hope it can destroy television without becoming the new television. I think i need to look closely at Mander's arguments & how i see them reflected in web-tech. I hope to find some fundamental differences. In 1978 Jerry Mander published Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television. I’ve just started re-reading it (i read it back in ‘79) & he asserts that television is irreformable & dangerous. While i doubt nothing has changed about television, web video may be different in that it may be more democratic, i.e. uncontrollable, still there are a lot of similarities, & as you see those similarities already emerging, there may be little difference in the long run. I gave up on t.v. years ago. I like to think the web, while having many similar drawbacks to television, can possibly emerge as a positive power in society. Clearly the internet/computer age is having a sweeping effect on society, the way we shop, interact & spend our time have already changed to a large degree. With the emergence of video on the web, i do hope it can destroy television without becoming the new television. I think i need to look closely at Mander’s arguments & how i see them reflected in web-tech. I hope to find some fundamental differences.

]]> By: Kristoffer http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-3876 Kristoffer Sun, 21 May 2006 14:40:24 +0000 http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/#comment-3876 Thanks for a thoughtful reply. I totally agree with you on all that. Maybe one should not think about a "show" at all then, but instead treat videoblogging as a stream of mediatized consciousness that you just tap into at will. But I'm trying to figure out what actually happens when you connect this stream to TV. I know that there are similar projects going on.(I think Jay is doing something like this in NY) The net is fragmented and personal - TV is (relatively) unified and impersonal. Why should one be aestehtically better than the other?(leaving political and commercial aspects aside) What happens when you let the different systems feedback on each other? Thanks for a thoughtful reply. I totally agree with you on all that.
Maybe one should not think about a “show” at all then, but instead treat videoblogging as a stream of mediatized consciousness that you just tap into at will. But I’m trying to figure out what actually happens when you connect this stream to TV. I know that there are similar projects going on.(I think Jay is doing something like this in NY)
The net is fragmented and personal – TV is (relatively) unified and impersonal. Why should one be aestehtically better than the other?(leaving political and commercial aspects aside) What happens when you let the different systems feedback on each other?

]]> By: Verdi http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-3719 Verdi Sat, 20 May 2006 15:53:55 +0000 http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/#comment-3719 I don't mind hearing about that at all. It's not physically being on TV that I have a problem with, it's copying the style and business models of TV that have evolved and tend to marginalize most people and appeal to the lowest common denominator. There's no need for that in videoblogging or public access. For example, public access usually requires you to have at least a 30 minute show. That's a lot of content to produce, especially when you're doing it in your spare time. So, many people resort to talk shows or sermons. There's no reason for this 30 or 60 minute time block except that it's a holdover from TV. If instead you could have your show be 30 seconds or 8 minutes, suddenly the possibilities open up. The hard part is mostly we only have TV and film as models so it's difficult to think outside of that. But that's the kind of think I'd like to see - that's what I'm pushing for. I don’t mind hearing about that at all. It’s not physically being on TV that I have a problem with, it’s copying the style and business models of TV that have evolved and tend to marginalize most people and appeal to the lowest common denominator. There’s no need for that in videoblogging or public access. For example, public access usually requires you to have at least a 30 minute show. That’s a lot of content to produce, especially when you’re doing it in your spare time. So, many people resort to talk shows or sermons. There’s no reason for this 30 or 60 minute time block except that it’s a holdover from TV. If instead you could have your show be 30 seconds or 8 minutes, suddenly the possibilities open up. The hard part is mostly we only have TV and film as models so it’s difficult to think outside of that. But that’s the kind of think I’d like to see – that’s what I’m pushing for.

]]> By: Kristoffer http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-3454 Kristoffer Fri, 19 May 2006 08:58:27 +0000 http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/#comment-3454 You probably don't want to hear about www.t-vlog.net It's a project that merges online video with public access tv. (ever heard of that one!?) Making the viewer the transmitter basically. We will just transmit the rss feed directly. You probably don’t want to hear about
http://www.t-vlog.net

It’s a project that merges online video with public access tv. (ever heard of that one!?)

Making the viewer the transmitter basically. We will just transmit the rss feed directly.

]]> By: Chuck http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-3222 Chuck Tue, 16 May 2006 09:20:30 +0000 http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/#comment-3222 Ahh. I feel peace and harmony in the videoblogging community. Unbridled creativy abounds. The future is bright. Now, who wants to step into the ring with me about copyright? huh? huh? Ahh. I feel peace and harmony in the videoblogging community. Unbridled creativy abounds. The future is bright.

Now, who wants to step into the ring with me about copyright? huh? huh?

]]> By: Heath - Batman Geek http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-3220 Heath - Batman Geek Tue, 16 May 2006 00:46:40 +0000 http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/#comment-3220 This "debate" is so interesting in a number of ways, to me there is a difference between video on the web and video blogging, vlogging to me is telling stories, my stories, or my friends storeies through a visual medium. But isn't telling stories what TV does? Or at least did? I don't know, I tell stories, some are better than others but they are my stories...... This “debate” is so interesting in a number of ways, to me there is a difference between video on the web and video blogging, vlogging to me is telling stories, my stories, or my friends storeies through a visual medium. But isn’t telling stories what TV does? Or at least did? I don’t know, I tell stories, some are better than others but they are my stories……

]]> By: Chris Bergeron http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-3219 Chris Bergeron Tue, 16 May 2006 00:26:53 +0000 http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/#comment-3219 What I love about this technology is that it will eventually replace the technology of television. We are beginning to see that with TiVo and Akimbo. I don't see "TeeVee" as a threat, I see corporate addoption of this technology as the tipping point that will change the world for the better. Now I am tired of the "Walmartization" of the planet, and when this medium becomes ubiquitous for the transport of video into the home what will be the difference between you and NBC ? NOTHING with the exeption of the quality of your message, the quality of your content, and most of all the genuine nature of your voice. I have faith in humanity that they will enjoy having a voice and will be able to see quality, honesty, and truth. Especially when they have true access and everyone has a voice of equal "volume" What I love about this technology is that it will eventually replace the technology of television.

We are beginning to see that with TiVo and Akimbo. I don’t see “TeeVee” as a threat, I see corporate addoption of this technology as the tipping point that will change the world for the better.

Now I am tired of the “Walmartization” of the planet, and when this medium becomes ubiquitous for the transport of video into the home what will be the difference between you and NBC ? NOTHING with the exeption of the quality of your message, the quality of your content, and most of all the genuine nature of your voice.

I have faith in humanity that they will enjoy having a voice and will be able to see quality, honesty, and truth. Especially when they have true access and everyone has a voice of equal “volume”

]]> By: Will http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-3217 Will Mon, 15 May 2006 20:50:00 +0000 http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/#comment-3217 Greetings Monsiuer Verdi, I was half amused, half annoyed by your inclusion of tiny tube with rocketboom et al in your recent diatribe against the encroachment of tv into videblog territory. For me the great thing about videoblogging is the ability to communicate and create, free of corporate influence; the only restrictions being time and your own creativity. The best part of the videoblogging movement for me is the unfettered creativity that it allows. But creativity can manifest itself in different genres, some more tv-like than others. I enjoy personal blogs and show blogs, I don't place a value judgement on one genre being superior to the other. It's like asserting an auto-biography is better than a novel because one is "real." But I believe they can be equally compelling and likewise a show videoblog can be equally as compelling to me as a personal videoblog. tiny tube is certainly not trying to replicate tv. In fact one of the things it does strive to do is satirize tv as well as some of the other videoblogs you've mentioned. If your perception is that we're trying to "be tv" then clearly we're failing on some level. If you've watched most of the tiny tube episodes you'll see we're trying to experiment with form and content, although some elements are derivative of tv. We try to take risks and evolve. We often fail but we don't have to worry about a suit pulling the plug. The freedom of expression is the wonderful thing about videoblogs and if a show is a way some people choose to express themselves they should be given the same consideration. There is plently of room for all types to flourish and I think it's a disservice to diminish the efforts of those you don't like. I don't mind being criticized I just take offense to being marginalized. Anyway, I do appreciate your voice in the debate and look forward to seeing where this all goes! Best Regards, Will Greetings Monsiuer Verdi,

I was half amused, half annoyed by your inclusion of tiny tube with rocketboom et al in your recent diatribe against the encroachment of tv into videblog territory.

For me the great thing about videoblogging is the ability to communicate and create, free of corporate influence; the only restrictions being time and your own creativity. The best part of the videoblogging movement for me is
the unfettered creativity that it allows.

But creativity can manifest itself in different genres, some more tv-like than others. I enjoy personal blogs
and show blogs, I don’t place a value judgement on one genre being superior to the other. It’s like asserting an auto-biography is better than a novel because one is “real.” But I believe they can be equally compelling and likewise a show videoblog can be equally as compelling to me as a personal videoblog.

tiny tube is certainly not trying to replicate tv. In fact one of the things it does strive to do is satirize tv as well as some of the other videoblogs you’ve mentioned. If your perception is that we’re trying to “be tv” then clearly we’re failing on some level.

If you’ve watched most of the tiny tube episodes you’ll see we’re trying to experiment with form and content, although some elements are derivative of tv. We try to take risks and evolve. We often fail but we don’t have to worry about a suit pulling the plug.

The freedom of expression is the wonderful thing about videoblogs and if a show is a way some people choose to express themselves they should be given the same consideration. There is plently of room for all types to flourish and I think it’s a disservice to diminish the efforts of those you don’t like. I don’t mind being criticized I just take offense to being marginalized.

Anyway, I do appreciate your voice in the debate and look forward to seeing where this all goes!

Best Regards,

Will

]]> By: Verdi http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-3214 Verdi Mon, 15 May 2006 15:29:47 +0000 http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/#comment-3214 I completly agree Chuck (especially about Wondershowzen!). There are always gray areas and my videos haven't been good about talking about them as my style is usually to go overboard to make a point. One of the many things that makes MN Stories great is that it doesn't try to be TV like. Imagine if was just a MN version of "Texas Country Reporter" with the Dairy Queen TV commercial guy (doubt they ran that up there but you get the idea)? It's just distressing to see people trying to be like TV and coming off as amateur TV when they could just be themselves and be way fucking better than TV! Here's a couple of "shows" off the top of my head (or at least videoblogs that aren't considered diaries) that aren't like TV and kick ass because of it: <a href="http://mnstories.com" rel="nofollow">MN Stories</a> <a href="http://human-dog.com/lab" rel="nofollow">Human-Dog</a> <a href="http://bottomunion.com/blog/?cat=16" rel="nofollow">Carp Caviar</a> <a href="http://www.bullemhead.com/category/woodchuck/" rel="nofollow">The Singing Woodchuck Variety Minute</a> <a href="http://chasingmills.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Chasing Windmills</a> <a href="http://drinkingwithbob.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Drinking With Bob</a> <a href="http://itsjerrytime.com" rel="nofollow">It's Jerry Time</a> <a href="http://lofistl.com" rel="nofollow">Lo-Fi Saint Louis</a> <a href="http://thepan.org" rel="nofollow">The PAN</a> I completly agree Chuck (especially about Wondershowzen!). There are always gray areas and my videos haven’t been good about talking about them as my style is usually to go overboard to make a point.

One of the many things that makes MN Stories great is that it doesn’t try to be TV like. Imagine if was just a MN version of “Texas Country Reporter” with the Dairy Queen TV commercial guy (doubt they ran that up there but you get the idea)?

It’s just distressing to see people trying to be like TV and coming off as amateur TV when they could just be themselves and be way fucking better than TV! Here’s a couple of “shows” off the top of my head (or at least videoblogs that aren’t considered diaries) that aren’t like TV and kick ass because of it:
MN Stories
Human-Dog
Carp Caviar
The Singing Woodchuck Variety Minute
Chasing Windmills
Drinking With Bob
It’s Jerry Time
Lo-Fi Saint Louis
The PAN

]]> By: Chuck http://michaelverdi.com/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-3213 Chuck Mon, 15 May 2006 08:18:10 +0000 http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2006/05/11/get-out-of-the-box/#comment-3213 Oops, more to say! I also think you're right that the entertainment industry generally produces schlock because of the business model. A lot of stuff is lowest-common-denominator, though it's increasingly niche-based. That said, there's a lot of stuff I love. Daily Show, obviously. But the best example may be <a href="http://www.thedst.com/wondershowzenDT/" rel="nofollow">Wondershowzen</a>. It's perhaps the most hilariously fucked-up and subversive thing I've ever seen, and it's on MTV2. It's a huge inspiration for what I'd like to do in vlog form. So: Exceptions and gray areas abound. Oops, more to say!

I also think you’re right that the entertainment industry generally produces schlock because of the business model. A lot of stuff is lowest-common-denominator, though it’s increasingly niche-based.

That said, there’s a lot of stuff I love. Daily Show, obviously. But the best example may be Wondershowzen. It’s perhaps the most hilariously fucked-up and subversive thing I’ve ever seen, and it’s on MTV2. It’s a huge inspiration for what I’d like to do in vlog form.

So: Exceptions and gray areas abound.

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